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Dot's Signal Strength

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malliekm

Dot's Signal Strength
« on: January 29, 2017, 02:37:40 am »
I have 3 Dots.  D1 is 17 feet from the router (NetGear AC1750 Dual Band).  The D2 and D3 are approx 30 and 40 ft from the router.  D1's signal strength is (right now) at 98%.  D2 and D3 are at 73% signal strength.  Is the signal strength adequate/acceptable for D2 and D3.  I know, you're thinking, "well does she notice any difference in the way D2/3 respond?"  D3 seems like she may drop requests a little more than D2
and D1.  Do I need a stronger router?  An extender or am I good? D2 now has a signal strength of 68%
Thanks,
Monica

mike27oct

Re: Dot's Signal Strength
« Reply #1 on: January 29, 2017, 03:04:24 pm »
Monica,

Short answer:  You have recently purchased a new and quality router.  You are fine.  You likely do not need a range extender. The distance you mention are well within good range of router.

Longer reply:  Signal strength is not measured in %, it is measured in -db.  (Where are you measuring %?) 

I believe you said you had an Android phone, if so, you should install a free app called Wi-Fi Analyzer on it.  It displays signal strength, channel, and other parameters of yours, and your neighbors' wifi signals.  You use it to stand by each of your Dots to measure signal strength there in -db.  Example: if you measure -30db or less at router location this is an excellent signal for the 2.4G band coming from a router.  if you measure -90db or higher anywhere in house this is an un-useable signal strength.  In fact, any signal -70db or more is dodgy to un-useable.  All my 4 Dots and Echo locations placed all around the house show  -40db to -50db in strength.

Let me know what you find.

malliekm

Re: Dot's Signal Strength
« Reply #2 on: January 29, 2017, 10:30:23 pm »
Mike, thank you for  your reply.  I downloaded Wifi Extender last night.  Not sure if it's the one you have.  There are two with the exact spelling.  farproc is the author
 
I'm getting signal strength percentages via my NetGear router's software, NetGenie.  The (buggy) software shows a network map and clicking on each device shows information about that device.

Last night, under Channel rating in Wifi Analyzer, I tried changing channels as it said other chabnnels were better/stronger.  The current channel always shows no stars.  Prior to changing to that channel, it would show a star rating  ???  Nothing seemed to make a difference. 

Used the signal meter to meter at the router and the Dot Sisters :)
* At the router -40
* D1 (closest) -44
* D2 -58
* D3 -56
These numbers would fluctuate the several seconds I'd stand by each Dot to get a reading.

Since a picture is worth a 1000 words, here are 3000 words ;)
The Samsung phones aren't shown because they're on mobile data right now.








mike27oct

Re: Dot's Signal Strength
« Reply #3 on: January 30, 2017, 12:57:12 am »
Hi, in your first paragraph you said you downloaded Wi-Fi Extender, but can I assume you meant Wi-Fi Analyzer?  The app I have is that name and the maker is farproc.  I have the Amazon Kindle tablet version installed.

Your screen shot is not the best way to view the signals, so use the View labeled "Channel graph", because it shows the "parabola" shape of the signals's curve with the high center part of signal over the channel number and the bandwidth of the signal as it overlaps into two adjacent channels on either side at the base of each parabola.  The graph your phone showed is called "Time graph" which is interesting but useless for finding a good channel to use.  Also, Channel graph shows either band (2.4G or 5G), and you switch between them by touching screen where its is showing band on left top side of screen.  Be sure to look at 2.4G, as that is what your Dots should all be connected to as I have mentioned many times in this forum. 

The best channels to be on are any of the three with less interference because of their placement in the wi-fi band, and that is CH 1, 6 or 11.  I have selected to permanently be on CH 6, since neighbors next door on each side are using CH 1, and other is using CH 11 (both were selected by Comcast when it was set up for the owners.)  We co-exist well this way.  They also could be on auto channel select since I was already using CH 6.

Anyway explore what's in this post, and I can get back later with more setup info for you tomorrow.

malliekm

Re: Dot's Signal Strength
« Reply #4 on: January 30, 2017, 01:44:37 am »
Yes, Analyzer is what I meant and yes, I'm using 2.4GHz for the Dots and printer.  Tablet, computer and phones are on 5GHz.  Do the percentages shown in the NetGear software correlate with the dBm of Wifi Analyzer?   My router is currently set to Auto.  That's the way it came and after seeing no difference in signal strength when changing it, I put it back on auto.  I am concerned about the constant fluctuation of the signal tho.  It seems to be excessive to me but maybe that's normal.
My neighbors all walk on 4 legs so I doubt neighborhood interference is a problem. 
You can't see it well but the darker blue underneath the light aqua colored graph is the 2.4 band.

At the router:


At the furthest Dot:


So it looks like the Dot's at the other end of the house are "dodgy".  Now what do you think of a wifi extender?
« Last Edit: January 30, 2017, 01:46:51 am by malliekm »

mike27oct

Re: Dot's Signal Strength
« Reply #5 on: January 30, 2017, 04:20:24 am »
Monica, I have some time before it is lights out at my house, so some more feedback for you.  Radio signals are not a constant signal strength; they fluctuate constantly and can be affected by weather conditions, sunspot activity; you name it.  Also, in the case of the app, you will see the graph rise and fall each time the app re-scans every few seconds for signals.  You can see these signals move by using Signal meter view.  The signal can also rise well above -30 dBm for short bursts, and I just ignore that anomaly.  It happens on all the signals I see near me. You are looking for the most constant average range of signal strength over a period of time, and it can vary more or less at different hours or days.

There are steps you can take to improve things before you feel you need a range extender.  One is router placement.  Ideally, a router is best positioned in the center of a home and on the highest living space floor unless there are say, three floors, then middle floor may be best.

In practice, a router should never be on a floor and under a desk.  Better to be on top of desk or table or even a shelf.  Antennas should be as high as possible/practical.  You have a few antennae on your router, and router user manual suggests the best arrangement of these. 

My router is close to the center of our home near where people and gadgets hang out.  In my house I also have what is called a "CAT5" box where phone, cable signals for TV and modem come in and 4 network wires for plugging the 4 wired rooms with ethernet sockets/plugs into the back of my router.  This happens to be the master bedroom walk in closet.  Router and modem are on the top shelf up against the inside wall facing center of house.  I'd rather not have sheet rock wall as a barrier, but I am not going to cut a hole there to remove the sheet rock!  Nevertheless, I'd say 80% of home is covered well; it is the rest of the home that needs the boost from range extenders.  I'd rather not use them, but the loss they can impart to system  is overcome by the gains they can provide elsewhere so I use them midway between router and other end of house and for downstairs improvement. 

Being isolated from neighbors makes selecting a router channel easy for you.  Always select CH 6 permanently if you have the luxury.  It's the "sweet spot" in the home wi-fi band; right in the middle.  You have, and I also have it available, and I use it.  Most people near me using 6 are far enough away that their signals are weak enough to not be a detriment to my wi-fi.

Most of us have N band devices today, and the old G devices are gone.  Problem is, routers come shipped to work on all modes, so I have my router adjusted to work on N Only, and not waste power on unneeded modes.  Security for router should be set for highest WPA2 and AES encryption.  Channel bandwidth should be set to 20MHz, and not a combo of 20/40 MHz to focus router power directly on the channel selected.  And, check the power level of signal; put it at highest setting; you are not going to cause interference for anyone nearby!

Go through this checklist to make any modification to fine tune the router.  Have fun!
Mike

Re: Dot's Signal Strength
« Reply #6 on: January 30, 2017, 04:47:41 am »
just a note from my experience.  sometimes you can get better signals just by moving it..  you may want to play around with moving the router and/or dot for the best signals.    In my I case, I found that placing the dots closer to the door of the rooms they are in gave me the best signal.  try to get it in the line of sight as close as possible - like in front of an open door. 

though it is not dot or echo related.  a while back, I has one room that would only get one bar on my smartphone.  after a couple of months I got tired of it and decided to messing around with router location.   I moved the router six inches to get a clearer shot at the hall and the phone went to three bars.   one thing to note, my router is in a different room than the modem so it could be closer to the center of the apartment.

mike27oct

Re: Dot's Signal Strength
« Reply #7 on: January 30, 2017, 02:32:02 pm »
Yep, avoid obstructions when you can.  So, how long is the ethernet cable between modem and router?

Re: Dot's Signal Strength
« Reply #8 on: January 30, 2017, 05:01:59 pm »
Yep, avoid obstructions when you can.  So, how long is the ethernet cable between modem and router?

Good Question -  I forget but guessing, around 30 feet.

mike27oct

Re: Dot's Signal Strength
« Reply #9 on: January 30, 2017, 05:28:35 pm »
I don't know, but there could be some signal loss in a cable that length directly from modem, but then, maybe not, because my house has 4 rooms wired with ethernet CAT5e cable, from the centrally located CAT5 distribution box that I plug 4 outputs into.  Many of those wires to rooms are well over 30 feet away.  The ethernet wall outlets are across the house for far away rooms and even to downstairs.  If you are not experiencing issues, you are likely fine with 30 feet -- just don't trip on the darn wire.  :D

malliekm

Re: Dot's Signal Strength
« Reply #10 on: January 30, 2017, 07:39:01 pm »
Great!  I just crippled my router by pressing a button or two on the front of it as I was picking it up to see how long the Ethernet cable was  :-[  Pressing the same buttons again didn't fix it.  Turning it off for a minute and back on didn't fix it.
The 2.3 and 5GHz band lights are not lit.  I don't have any usb devices connected.  I don't recall which of the lights (1-4) were lit.   I'll call ts later if you guys can't take pity on me.  Checked the NetGear Genie software but don't see how to fix it.  The Dot Sisters are angrily flashing red circles at me if I try to talk to them  :P
But before I crippled my router, I did change the 2.4 band to channel 6.  And the Ethernet cable is just 3 ft long, NOT 30.
I can't move the router since it has to connect to the modem and can't relocate the office.  There is no furniture next to the doorways of the two Dots furthest away.  I live in a single story home.  Once I get the router back in complete working order, I'll finish the rest of my homework and report back.


NOW they're not!  Sheese! 

mike27oct

Re: Dot's Signal Strength
« Reply #11 on: January 30, 2017, 08:39:06 pm »
Sheese, is right!  OK, first question: what does the user manual say the two buttons are for?  I am just guessing; are they for turning off wireless signal for either band?  Tell me that info, and I might have a clue.  BTW, do these buttons press in and stay in (or out) with each button press?  If so, then buttons staying down usually means "on"; if not, then buttons just toggle but position of button stays same.

OK, check to see that you did not dislodge the ethernet cable on either end, like on modem or router.  Be sure it is in securely.  Check all connections and power cable into router.  Oh, and don't use the power button, just unplug the router from wall power in case power OFF button does not remove the power completely.  Tell me model of router in case I need to locate the user manual online.

Don't worry, this is highly fixable if all that happened is a button or two got pressed.

Oh, and Monica, anymore antics like this, and you quickly will be declared to be "high maintenance"!  (Just kidding, of course.)  ;)

malliekm

Re: Dot's Signal Strength
« Reply #12 on: January 30, 2017, 11:51:49 pm »
I'm sure this is going to be embarrassingly simple to fix  :-[
The two far right buttons are Wifi on/off and WPS button.
Buttons pop back out after pressing.  I already checked all the connections.
All are properly seated.  I unplugged the router from the wall for 3 minutes. 
It didn't change anything.
Router model # is R6400.  "Highly fixable"...that's what I'm afraid of! lol

malliekm

Re: Dot's Signal Strength
« Reply #13 on: January 31, 2017, 01:08:16 am »
I KNEW it would be an uber simple fix!  I'm almost too embarrassed to tell you what it was...so I won't  ;D  But, all is well or should be soon.  The lights are on and devices are starting to show up in the NetGear Genie software.  Tablet is connected but not yet showing up in the software.  The Dot Sisters are being stand offish  ::)  I may have to "invite" them back to the...oh wait, they're back!  I'm sure the tablet will be next.  Oh ok, I'll tell you.  To turn the wifi button ON, you must press and HOLD till the light comes on.  WPS light came on after the Wifi LED.  Thank you Mike and  renegade600. 
Now I'll recheck the Dots' signal strength and see if moving to channel 6 made any improvements.

mike27oct

Re: Dot's Signal Strength
« Reply #14 on: January 31, 2017, 01:16:21 am »
 know, I had written a post. but the forum site told me there was another message so check before I send mine.  I did, and saw your reply.  Anyway, this is what I had written for you so you don't think I am making this up!  You will get something out of my post anyway I think. . . .
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hmmm, well, it seems obvious wi-fi button needs to be on, but how/when?  What does manual say about this button? 

WPS is a kind of "dummied down" way to connect a wireless device to router wi-fi that also has a WPS button as well. Basically, if one knows their wi-fi password all they need to do is enter the password and connection is made. Problem is this may be "too difficult" for some people (or they don't) know the password, so this is where WPS buttons come into play; they both need to be pressed at same time for the two devices to connect.  Botton line, I have never used WPS to connect devices. I just enter my password!  Don't know how this has affected your router this time or not.  Need to look at manual.

BTW, you have computers connected to the router, right?  So, do they have their internet connection working still?  Check and see if your wired internet connection is still present by going to a website on the browser.

Hold on, I am downloading the router's quick start guide (QSG) and manual.  OK, got em'

Here is a good clue from the QSG, it says this about the wi-fi on/off button:

Pressing this button for two seconds turns the 2.4 GHz
and 5 GHz WiFi radios on and off.
If this LED is lit, the WiFi radios are on. If this LED is off,
the WiFi radios are turned off and you cannot use WiFi to
connect to the router.

So, it's not a press on to activate it, it has to be done as described above for the two seconds.  Go for it!  Successful?

Hopefully, you will not need the WPS button, this is what QSG says about it:

This button lets you use WPS to join the WiFi network
without typing the WiFi password. The WPS LED blinks
white during this process and then lights solid white.

Since you did not do the WPS setup again, you may not have an issue here.  Locate your copy of the QSG and refer ti it if necessary.